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  #1  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:43 PM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default Spike in nitrate and cyano...please help

Hi forum,
This is my first port here. Been reading alot and learning from everyone.
Am having a problem please help me with some guidance.
I start a new tank with zeovit from the beginning. 14 days cycle, followed Alexander guidelines to the letter.
Things went really well for 6 months. Then I started introduce other additives to improve colors(nitrate and phosphate was zero at the time)
2 months ago I started battling cyano outbreaks. So I tried cyano clean+vs, did not help. Then I started adding a balance and look like I made a mistake.
I started the initial dose as described but instead of adding every 10 days I added every day for 10 days.
I did my 3rd rock exchange, Suddenly I have a spike in nitrate ~5 6ppm and some spa rtn. So I stopped my a balance and did 40% water change. Coral better but dark from high nitrate and phosphate.
Now my problem still the cyano outbreak and the high nitrate. I cannot seems to bring nitrate down.
I cut all additive and just dosing kept only zb,zs,sp,cs,zz.
Can someone explain to me how can I bring down my nitrate with the dosing regimen? What's the relationship between zb,zs and rocks with nitrate. Some say reduce when having night nitrate and some says the opposite. Am confused.

Before nitrate spike
1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter *200g*
2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter *160-170g*
3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique NO
4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.) *NO*
5. Are you using Ozone *NO*
6. Are you using UV *NO*
7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume) *BK 200 mini wet skimming*
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels *Nitrate 0+ppm and phosphate 0 ppm*
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels *Calcium 440, Alk 7 and agnesium 1350*
Also for some reason I can never bring down my .CA, I never dose .CA. only OH, multiple test kits show the same .CA of 440~450...
10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.) *Live rock, zeovit carbon*
11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.) *AP700 x2+T5 4 bulbs*
12. What corals do you keep *Sps, clam*
13. Tissue color (light or dark) *light thin tissues*
14. How long has the tank been running *6 months*
15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system *Ultra low nutrient and coloration*
16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.)*only redsea Alk 20ml each day*
17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.) *14 days cycle with dry rocks+20%live*
18. Any present problems
19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.) *thin tissues*
20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.) * Red Sea and Hannah instruments*
21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.) *1.5L Zeovit media changed first 4weeks, zeobak 7 drops every other day then every 3 days., zero start .6ml twice daily, sponge power 7 drops every day, coral vital user 8 drops every day, phols extra special 7ml every 3 day, bio mate 8 drops twice weekly mixed with as 1 spoon, B balance daily, AA daily for 4 months
22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.) *35 salinity, temp is 77 degrees stable*
23. Which salt brand do you use *marine tropocal*

Dosing after the cyano break



7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume) *BK 200 mini wet skimming*
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels *Nitrate 0+ppm and phosphate 0 ppm*
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels *Calcium 440, Alk 7 and agnesium 1350*
Also for some reason I can never bring down my .CA, I never dose .CA. only OH, multiple test kits show the same .CA of 440~450...
13. Tissue color (light or dark) *dark tissues*
14. How long has the tank been running *2 months*
16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.)*only redsea Alk 20ml each day*
18. Any present problems
19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.) *cyano and dark coloes*
20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.) * Red Sea and Hannah instruments*
21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.) *1.5L Zeovit media changed every 6weeks, zeobak 7 drops every other day then every 3 days., zero start .5ml twice daily, sponge power 7 drops every day, bio mate 8 drops twice weekly mixed with as 1 spoon, B balance daily using auto packs, AA auto in sump daily for 4 months
22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.) *35 salinity, temp is 77 degrees stable*
23. Which salt brand do you use *marine tropocal*




Can someone help me pls
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:22 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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There are many possibilities for cyanos or a increase of NO3 so some things I would recommend to check:

Quality of RO water
Flow through the ZeoVit reactor
Fish stocking level
Are filter sponges used ?
Have you changed anything in the last couple of weeks before the problem started ?

G.Alexander
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:42 AM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
There are many possibilities for cyanos or a increase of NO3 so some things I would recommend to check:

Quality of RO water
Flow through the ZeoVit reactor
Fish stocking level
Are filter sponges used ?
Have you changed anything in the last couple of weeks before the problem started ?

G.Alexander
Thank you Alexander.
TO quality is good. Zero RED.
Flow is 150gph. How is the flow a factor here?
The only sponges I have at 2 in the sump(drain compartment and return)
I did not change. I started adding BB,AA,CB...

Alexander, is there a relationship between the ZS and ZB dosing and cyano? Would changing the dosing of ZS impact the cyano?
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:49 AM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default

Oh one more thing.
The nitrate increase happened when I overdosed the A-balance and changed the rocks trying to treat the Cyano. Before that nitrate was kind of stable 0.25,
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2017, 02:59 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Basically a NO3 level of ~ 5 mg does not have a negative impact to your corals, it also has nothing to do with the TN you observe.

The level will drop over the time again so not a real issue at the moment.

It is more important to get rid of the cyanos and fix the TN reason.

Because of the TN have you ever checked the K+ level of your system ?

While treating the cyanos I recommend to stop dosing B-Balance, XTra and AAHC for some time.

Do you already own Coral Snow and since which time do you dose A-Balance ? Have you dosed the product like recommended on the label ?

G.Alexander
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:16 AM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
Basically a NO3 level of ~ 5 mg does not have a negative impact to your corals, it also has nothing to do with the TN you observe.

The level will drop over the time again so not a real issue at the moment.

It is more important to get rid of the cyanos and fix the TN reason.

Because of the TN have you ever checked the K+ level of your system ?

While treating the cyanos I recommend to stop dosing B-Balance, XTra and AAHC for some time.

Do you already own Coral Snow and since which time do you dose A-Balance ? Have you dosed the product like recommended on the label ?

G.Alexander
Thanks alot Alexander.
I agree 5-6 ppm is not a big deal. That being said I had this spike when I accidentally overdosed A-balance. I was doing daily(for 10 days) instead of every 10 days which I think isbwhat caused the TN of 2 across. Now coral are happy but dark color. So my problem remains the cyano.
My K is in check within the recommended range..

I have CS and been dosing it with ZB and/or CC.

Alexander I kindly have 2 questions I would appreciate if you educate me:

1- when nitrate are high, should you increase ZS, ZB or decrease it? I basically want to understand the relationship between nitrate and zb,zs...
2- how do you recommend treating the cyano? Now I only dose basics zb,zs,sp,cs+CC,zz+bm
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  #7  
Old 07-19-2017, 05:52 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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If zero PO4 and some NO3 is detectable it can often be helpful to decrease ZeoStart a little bit but I would personally not dose less than 50% of the recommended quantity. It is always the best to do this in steps while monitoring the PO4 and NO3 level.

Can you post a picture of the cyanos, it is uncommon that after the high dosage of A-Balance they are still there. Just want to check if those are really cyanos.

G.Alexander
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2017, 12:35 PM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
If zero PO4 and some NO3 is detectable it can often be helpful to decrease ZeoStart a little bit but I would personally not dose less than 50% of the recommended quantity. It is always the best to do this in steps while monitoring the PO4 and NO3 level.

Can you post a picture of the cyanos, it is uncommon that after the high dosage of A-Balance they are still there. Just want to check if those are really cyanos.

G.Alexander
Thank you alexander. Would you mind educating me but more. In what cases it is recommended to stop zs for couple of days then? I have seen some posts from you were you recommend stopping zs for 3 days...
Basically I have seen here and there posts thay make some relationships between zs,zb and the nitrate/phosphate....really sorry if my questions seems dumb)
Here is a pic of the cyano it's red thick layer thay tend to appear middle of the day when light is been on for 4 6 hours and kinda disappear or turn brown at the end of the light cycle.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2017, 12:38 PM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default More pics

More pics for better background
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2017, 12:48 PM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default More pics

Even more pics of some of my coral. Some of these pics looks clean from cyano cause I took them after cleaning and blowing the cyano out during wc, but they always come back within 2 3 days
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2017, 01:35 PM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default Full tank pic

This is a wide shot of the whole tank.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2017, 09:10 PM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Default More details of the cyano

Alexander,
These pictures show one of the stages of the cyano after I clean it. I cleaned this area 3 days ago, now it showed up again, the cyano start with brown color film that turn red by middle of the light cycle then turn brown back at night. Also there is brown algea in the glass that I clean every day...
Nitrate is above 10 ppm now Po4 0.16ppm, kh 7.4,CA 440.
Looks like nitrate is increasing which confuses me...
Only dosing
Zb:8drops every other day with CS
Zs:0.6mlx2 daily
Cyano clean 14 drops daily
Zz+bm 8 drops 2 times weekly

Is it possible that am dealing with expired ZS?
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Last edited by ohashimz; 07-19-2017 at 09:28 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2017, 03:08 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Thank you for the pictures, really looks like cyanos. Can you tell me which kind of sand you have in the tank ?

Basically stop dosing the carbon source does cause biological changes which are not good so it can be done just experimental if someone is thinking ZeoStart is a part of any kinf of a problem. Indeed to much can cause some kind of a brown film, if that is the case it can be reduced. A system running nutrient poor stabile with a really healthy biology does usually need less ZeoStart than the recommended quantity.

G.Alexander
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2017, 04:01 AM
ohashimz ohashimz 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
Thank you for the pictures, really looks like cyanos. Can you tell me which kind of sand you have in the tank ?

Basically stop dosing the carbon source does cause biological changes which are not good so it can be done just experimental if someone is thinking ZeoStart is a part of any kinf of a problem. Indeed to much can cause some kind of a brown film, if that is the case it can be reduced. A system running nutrient poor stabile with a really healthy biology does usually need less ZeoStart than the recommended quantity.

G.Alexander
I used CaribSea Ocean Direct Live Sand. One more question alex. Should I use zeofood? When should I use zeofood?
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2017, 04:58 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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At the moment I would not dose ZeoFood because of the cyanos. Many had problems with constant cyanos with the combination of ZeoVit and Live Sand. The only way to get rid of it was replacing the sand with a shallow sand bed of well rinsed dry aragonite. The exchange should be done over a couple of weeks in steps to prevent to much biological changes.

G.Alexander
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