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  #1  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:14 PM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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Default PO4 pegged at .17 will not drop

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter.........150 tank 49g sump
2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter...... Less rock total vol. approx. 170
3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique....NO
4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.)....NO
5. Are you using Ozone....NO
6. Are you using UV.......NO
7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume)..........MONZTER SM163 DC INTERNAL PROTEIN SKIMMER
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels po4 .17 Hanna NO3 between 2and 4ppm (reds test)
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels ca 480, Mg1400, All 8.3
10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.) refugium
11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.) Radion Pro AP setting PAR 165 in the middle of tank
12. What corals do you keep ALL Zoa/LPS/SPS
13. Tissue color (light or dark) nice color not pastel pale
14. How long has the tank been running 1 year
15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system PO4 assistance
16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.) zero amino and zeo LPS as prescribed
17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.) 90lbs ?? Pukani bleach bath and let it set for 4 months then fresh water bath for two
18. Any present problems PO4 locked at .17
19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.) No system is fine
20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.) Hanna and Redsea switch out routinely
21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.) Zeostart was 1ml increased to 2 ml still no change in PO4, zero back twice a week 4-5 drops, recently stopped seafood since I dose amino and LPS amino zeovit 1 full bag and then top off. Flow set to 75 have been gradually increasing
22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.) 35 ppt temp 78-1-78.5
23. Which salt brand do you use HW marine


the system maintained a low to zero PO4 at a flow of 47-54. then I added three fish about a month ago; changed out my zeovit and now I can not get my PO4 below .17. it is pegged there I can overfeed and all and by the next day it is at .17 but no lower. I have tested the chemicals on RODI water and get 0 so my tests are accurate. I tested after dosing amino acids and it was as high as .37 but it always drops.

I have not seen problem with algae and I water change 18 gallons every week.

I do have cheato and have had that in my refugium since day one with no ill effects. in fact because of the cheato I think that was why I was able to keep 0 at a flow rate of 54 but not sure.

NOW I am just confused and have no idea what I am doing wrong. I am looking everyday for brown on the sand to indicate I am overdosing but nothing.

I am a little confused.

HELP!!!!!!!
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:07 AM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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Hello daghostryder, .
@ Your actual PO4 and NO3 levels are how much po4.17 Hannah NO3 is between 2 and 4ppm.
@9. What is your actual Ca, Alk and Mg content? 480, Mg1400, kh 8.3.
@ 21. The current dose, dosage and interval (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.) Zeostart increased to 2ml still unchanged PO4, zero back 4-5 drops twice a week, recently stopped seafood because I dose Amino and LPS amino zeovit 1 full bag then top. The flow rate set to 75 is gradually increasing,
@I do have cheato, and this is not the case in my shelter since the first day.
@I am looking for brown on the sand every day to show that I am taking too much but nothing.

Let's start with reducing nutrition.

1. Put 1.5 liters of zeovit into the Zeo reactor. The water flow is approximately 600 liters per hour. The reactor pump was connected to a clock timer and the reactor pump was run for a start time of 3 hours / 3 hours / 3 hours. When shutting down the pump, make sure that the zeolite is not exposed to the air. Clean the materials daily. The zeolite was left in the filter for 4 weeks until the first replacement. This is the first replacement interval and the others may be extended to 6-8 weeks.

2. Place 0.6 liters of activated carbon in a filter bag and place it in a passive stream of water in the oil sump and replace it every 30 days. Rub the carbon every day to keep the surface clean. Most users get the perfect result with korallenzucht carbon.

3. Take 6 drops of ZeoBac daily for the first 2 weeks, 2 to 3 times a week, 6 drops each time. Daily dose of 0.6 ml ZeoStart 2x (morning and evening). They are put into use before the Zeo reactor pump is switched on. Since you already own this product, you will receive an additional 6 drops of Sponge Power per day.

Later you can use other products for coral staining. Adjust your skimmer to keep it moist, keep it clean, and export as much as possible. Add water with salt, change water 5-10% per week, siphon sand, clean. If you prefer, use Zeo Coral Snow 6ml every other day.

The basic water parameters look good and try to stay stable in the following range of New South Wales:

KH 6.5 - 7.5
Ca 400 - 420 mg
Mg 1250 - 1300 mg
K + ~380 mg

For malnourished environments, K + (potassium) seems to be an important factor. I suggest you also get a test kit for this element and post your results.

This is a passage from the KZ guide that does not require "Refugium", phosban reactor, phosphate remover, denitrification reactor, algae/turf scrubber, ozone and UV filters, should be placed before starting the zeovit setup Remove.
Extra algae scubber is not required, but as long as the algae grows it is not a problem with it.
Let us start with the KZ basic 4 balance and see the changes in nutrients.
Can you post more images of tanks for us, thank you

Last edited by jacky; 10-19-2018 at 12:35 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:37 AM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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This is not a new system I have been using the Zeo system for a year now. For the longest time the system has maintained .00 po4.

Q1. The amount is accurate 1.5 of the stones. I will increase Flow Rate to 150 gph- Should I do this gradually?? I am currently at 75-80 gph from 54gph. Also it was explained that the 3 on 3 off was required only for start up. Should I ALWAYS do a 3/3/3??

Q2. I have been using Zeo Carbon for 1 year.

Q3, I will increase my zeobak by 1 drop and decrease my Zeo Start .04. Again I have been using the ZEO system for a year should i start over and dose daily as if i changed the media (stones)??

What do you mean by reducing nutrition??

Thank you for your help.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2018, 04:02 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Lets increase the reactor flow in two steps over the next 3 or 4 weeks to ~ 150 US gallons per hour continuous flow.

Continue dosing as follows:

ZeoBac – 6 drops every other day
Zeostart – 0.6 ml 2 x daily
SpongePower – 6 drops daily
BioMate – 12 drops every other day

This dosing regimen can be used for some time.

Additional adjust your skimmer to skim wet and clean it daily to export as much as possible.

What exactly does your refugium contain ?

G.Alexander
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2018, 05:04 AM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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I am very sorry for it. The head is knotted. Let us follow the advice given by G.Alexander to increase the reactor flow to a continuous flow of ~150 US gallons per hour in two steps over the next three or four weeks.
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:37 AM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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THANKS G.ALEXANDER!!!!!! Jacky its okay. I appreciate the quick response

I never used BioMate it looks very interesting indeed, and stopped using sponge power once I started amino acids, amino acids LPS and coral vitalizer.

While I have you- do i need both amino acids and amino acids LPS or can I get away with just one of those Amino Acids?? I have a mixed reef and the color of my zoas and LPS are awesome so I have been scared to stop lol.

In my sump/refugium I have live rock maybe 30-40 lbs, and cheatomorpha growing by way of a kessil grow light on an alternating light schedule from the main tank. The cheato grows nicely and I am always harvesting at-least once a week. That is where my pods can safely populate without any predators as I have Manderine in the display. I also have strong flow inside the sump to prohibit collection of detritus, but with all the rock in my tank I often see detritus blown out when i do remember to turkey bast clean so thank you for recommending the Biomate.

I will get started on the new improved regime and I will be in touch in a few weeks

THANK YOU ZEO Team!!!!!!
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:49 AM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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there are also a few prisoners in the fuge. Emerald crab was caught nibbling on a acro- he was sentenced to jail-without possibility for parole immediately. There are also some snails they spawned in my tank and I just let them be. Outside of that nothing else.

As I read about the biomate it just dawned on me i went sockless in mid-late august- went on vacation and did not want to have them clog. Came back an liked the health of the tank--hence the high flow in the sump area to avoid build up. I am considering 350 micro mesh socks. I floss the water twice a month with original filter socks. But just find the micro life, such as feather dusters populate so much better without the socks and my Blastos seem to really open up.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:10 PM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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As long as you have a elevated PO4 level I would recommend to stop dosing AminoAcids, you ca use them later if the problem is fixed. If you have LPS corals additional it can make sense to dose both AminoAcid products.

If you use filter socks make sure to clean the regular, daily is the best or every other day.

As long as there just live rock and algae in the refugium I do not see any problem with it, just though you run have anything else in it like a DSB or mud.

G.Alexander
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:31 PM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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Greetings so it has been about a month and then some with the new regiment and I have not noticed a change in the right direction. My PO4 is steadily climbing.

I recently changed out the Zeolite rocks for new rocks and continued dosing as directed.

I still notice brown on the sand- when that happens I reduce the drops of Sponge power by 1 or 2 that seems to fix that, coupled with turkey baster blowing the sand.

I cleaned the skimmer and am in the process of dialing that back in for a wet skim. I am pulling a lot of tea water daily.

My fish population is 2 tangs, 2 clowns, a scooter and a mandarin, 3 anthias, 3 zebra barbed dart fish, 1 tailsot, 1 signal goby, snails, nassarius and urchins.

I recently reduced feeding from three mysis cubes and two Brine cubes to 1 and 1 and will contuse this for the next 30 days the fish can stand to lose some weight.

I recently started blowing my rock, something I had stopped and I will assist the sand sifting crew in stirring the top 1/4 to 1/2 inch of sand. When I did this recently I noticed a huge dust bowl and believe that could be the primary source of my PO4. I have read to only stir and vacuum the top 1/4 to 1/2 inch of sand. I will begin vacuuming this weekend.

Regardless it still seems zero should be able to keep up or no?? I felt I had much better PO4 control with GFO many years ago but thought by automating the zero process this would be easier.

Any ideas??? And how long "should/might" this take?? Trust I understand NOTHING in this hobby happens fast except the bad stuff.

If we run into a brick wall I am considering taking Zeo offline- so I might need directions on how to safely take Zeo off line so I can use GFO as I understand I can NOT use ZEO and GFO simultaneously. THANK YOU in advance-
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:04 PM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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I think, 17. Live rock (how much, how big, etc.) 90lbs? Pukani bleach bath, let it sit for 4 months, then fresh water bath for two. This may be part of the reason.

The system maintains PO4 as low as zero at flow rates of 47-54. Then I added three fish a month ago; changed my zeovit, now I can't get my PO4.17. It hangs there and I can eat too much and the next day it is at .17 but not low
( Po4 will change 0~0.14, control feeding)

Zeo bac, sp, start3, the use of BioMate, PO4 will be reduced
What is your current complete dose?
What is the Zeo zeolite reactor flow
Have you changed the first Zeo zeolite?
Reactor flow, continuous flow of 150 US gallons per hour.

Cheato, and the complete tank, can you give us more pictures?
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:33 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Do you run ZeoVit on this system since the beginning ? If not how have you controlled PO4 before starting ZeoVit ?

Also can you please post a picture of your tank, your sump and some SPS corals ?

G.Alexander
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:54 AM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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Hi G. Alexander.

Yes, Zeo was run on the system from day one. I started up the system per instructions including the on off period for set hours. This was all started about 1 year ago. System was online sep-oct 2017.

Overall the tank looks GREAT. I have good PE and everything is growing, but I have noticed the ALK starting to increase- a possible effect of the increased PO4 slowing the growth of corals

I have well over 50 SP, plenty of Zoa and nothing that I can think of has changed on my end.
Pics attached.

The flows scaleable as I have 6 wav pumps four on the sides running at approx 50 percent and two on the back wall running at roughly 25. Overall flow in the tank can range from a low of 6.5 to a high of 8 at night for nutrient export, BUT I am not noticing the export. lol

My problems occurred after my trip and then gradually picked up after vacation and for the life of me I do not read anything in my notes that suggest a problem. So that is why this is so confusing to me.

All items are being dosed per your recommendations. I have used coral snow twice to remove extra particles from the tank. I have my filter socks back in, BUT I do not run my system with all three filter socks. I removed them all when I went on vacation to avoid the person I had watching the tank the hassle of watching that. When I returned I had huge growths of Yellow sponge and feather dusters in my tank. PO4 was still rather normal .07 which was an ideal number for me. I had the system as low as .03-.00 and was intentional increasing it to feed the tank regularly. My intention was to stop at .10- .08. We are a touch over that now LOL

Hmmm I have my pics but they will not drag and drop. How do I do this? I added a link to my facebook if that will work.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

there are 7 photos there. a few corals to show PE, color is still there and three of the tank from the left right and center one of the sump. you are looking at the reservoir on the far right, then the sump. Main pump in the last chamber, zero and skimmer in chamber two, and cheat and LR only in chamber 1 the water enters in the far L which I do not think you can see. but that is where the filter socks are typically placed. Again I water change 10-12% weekly, I use HW Reefers Salt and I test my water, my RO/DI is tested as well. I have 00's across the board on all water sources so I have eliminated the obvious- although there was a time early on my cartridge was the culprit lol. (that was when I first started the hobby rookie mistake) lol

Thanks again for your help . I hope you are able to get to my facebook for the pics if not let me know what I should do to upload an image.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:16 AM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacky View Post
I think, 17. Live rock (how much, how big, etc.) 90lbs? Pukani bleach bath, let it sit for 4 months, then fresh water bath for two. This may be part of the reason.

The system maintains PO4 as low as zero at flow rates of 47-54. Then I added three fish a month ago; changed my zeovit, now I can't get my PO4.17. It hangs there and I can eat too much and the next day it is at .17 but not low
( Po4 will change 0~0.14, control feeding)

Zeo bac, sp, start3, the use of BioMate, PO4 will be reduced
What is your current complete dose?
What is the Zeo zeolite reactor flow
Have you changed the first Zeo zeolite?
Reactor flow, continuous flow of 150 US gallons per hour.

Cheato, and the complete tank, can you give us more pictures?
Hi Jacky- I'm a lil confused why killing the rock and all its inhabitants to avoid hitchhikers would be the cause of PO4. The rock was left to sit in fresh water RODI and routinely changed. The rock was then placed in the tank and cycled??

The feeding increased over a period of 12 months with the introduction of new fish. While I am decreasing the feeding- I still have not seen a decrease in the PO4. My system has maintained very low numbers since day one- the problems as ai mention occurred after a work trip three weeks, wife and children monitored tank and then after a vacation shortly after. BUT even then the PO4 was manageable and of no concern.

Again this is not a new system I have replaced ZEOLITES several times, I Amer using the dosing regiment recommended by G. Alexander- religiously!!! lol

I know nothing GOOD happens quickly in this hobby so that is why I have given the recommendations almost a month and a half to take effect but nothing yet so I think we just need some additional tweaking - I hope.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:40 AM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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1.My explanation is that Live Rock is more helpful in reducing nutrient salt than using Live Rock and Dry Live Rock.
Not the reason for becoming a PO4, it is more helpful to improve the system and reduce nutrition.

2. Because I dont know the feeding situation of the fish, its just a possible idea, your observation is great.

3. Because I don't know how to replace Zeo, it's just a possible idea, and you're doing a great job, so you can better understand whether it is the cause.

4. Maybe try more skimmer wet, change filter socks every day, vacuum siphon sand, Zeo CS, SP, Start3, BioMate which can help reduce PO4

5. G. The direction is great! What do you use to lower the PO4, and now reduce the way the PO4 is. For example, the original method vs. Zeo start3 increases and decreases the dose between the two, instead.

PO4 is still easy to manage and doesn't matter. Indeed, you are very good. I also think that only some adjustments and time are needed, and PO4 will slowly decrease.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:52 AM
daghostryder daghostryder 目前離線
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Jacky- I see what you are saying regarding the PO4 being pegged at .17- what i was saying is that I can feed till the cows come home and increase the PO4 to as high as .32 ( which i have done through Coral vitalizer and AA and by the end of the day it would be back to .17 but no lower. I tested items such as RODI to make sure my chemicals were not bad, or that the hanna checker did not need calibration and sure enough it came back zero- i tested my reservoir water to make sure nothing died in my fresh water since i use an ATO but that too tested zero. I found that very bizarre. Keep in mind that was before I made the adjustments recommended by G. Now my Po4 just do whatever lol.

I replace zeo every 6 weeks from 8 so i have increased the time between changes thinking the tank is exhausting the rock quickly and needs to be turned over quicker- what is the "typical" life span with my po4 being so high?? ( i do not mind changing more frequently if that will help.)

I will be siphoning the sand this week end i believe that is huge part of this. I had a bad case of LARS with regards to sand and rock blowing. (Consider I stopped blowing the sand in late may-june when i went on first work trip). So that crud has just accumulated I am thinking.

Skimmer is going wetter its a nice green tea color and i have to empty the cup daily. So we just need to allow that to catch up. hence the reduction in feeding to help that along.

I am not using anything other then good practices in feeding, skimming and maintenance to help reduce the PO4 and of course Zeoit

Can you explain the LR more please. It has been a year I hope my rock is 'more alive" then when i first added it or no? This is not a challenge but a serious question. I am not as smart as I pretend i just read a lot of books and still have some very old bad habbits form the 90's LOL

Back then we just added LR - BUT the result was bad hitchhikers. This tank I opted to "kill" the rock and add what i wanted to it. It is gradually becoming super encrusted and full of feather dusters and now yellow sponge. BUT anything you can add to make this rock more efficient would be appreciated.

were you able to see the facebook photos??

Last edited by daghostryder; 12-06-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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