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  #31  
Old 12-02-2016, 11:02 PM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Sorry to hear, the increase of NO3 has IMO nothing to do with BioMate, it does have additional reasons.

Can you please post pictures of your sump and a full tank shot ?

Do you have a chance to get a professional water test like triton does offer to see if there is anything unusual ?

Was the PO4 level also high while using the triton program ? What do they use to keep PO4 under control ?

Do you use korallenzucht carbon or any other kind ?

G.Alexander
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2016, 10:43 AM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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I wasn't thinking that Biomate was responsible for Nitrate increasing. I think that things were slightly impacted by not changing the Zeolite soon enough, but that's just a guess. Having Nitrate and Phosphate so much out of balance does restrict the reduction of Nitrate as far as I understand it.

I have a Triton test available - I've just got to get around to sending off a sample.

Pictures attached. The tank is an embarrassment at the moment. I've yet to take out the freshly deceased corals. They were really starting to do well before I tried to get phosphate down that final bit.

The sand colour was improving noticeably - it has since got worse again with the latest increase in Phosphate. The detritus in the bottom of the sump looks worse than it is in that photograph and it'll be coming out with this water change. My usual policy was to remove it when doing a water change - I had been taking water from the tank to siphon algae out so perhaps that isn't helping.

KZ Carbon is used.
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2016, 10:46 PM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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My recommendation would be cleaning the sump by syphoning the mulm out, vacuum the sand regular in addition to replace all the hoses which are not silicone with silicone hoses or pvc pipes as those kind of hoses often leach softeners which has a negative impact to the biology. I can not say anything to the filter block you use but usually it should not be necessary but removing it all at once is also risky at the moment as it might increase the PO4 level furthermore.

Also lets see what the water tests result will be.

G.Alexander
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2016, 05:20 AM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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The block shouldn't be any different to having more live rock.

The mulm will be siphoned but I would expect that to be linked to an increase in nitrate rather than phosphate?

Are you referring to the green hose? This is the one that comes with the tank and I'm not sure what it is made from.
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  #35  
Old 12-04-2016, 03:46 PM
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Is this a reefer 350?
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2016, 03:52 PM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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Yes.
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  #37  
Old 12-04-2016, 04:10 PM
Reefer350 Reefer350 目前離線
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You seem to have a extra panel in the sump? What skimmer are you running in there?
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2016, 04:12 PM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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The panel was moved over for when I ran Triton and had algae in the right-hand side - not enough surface area and this resulted in loads of algae in the display, hence the switch to Zeovit.

It's a Deltec 1351 skimmer, if my memory serves me correctly.
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2016, 04:22 PM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
My recommendation would be cleaning the sump by syphoning the mulm out, vacuum the sand regular in addition to replace all the hoses which are not silicone with silicone hoses or pvc pipes as those kind of hoses often leach softeners which has a negative impact to the biology. I can not say anything to the filter block you use but usually it should not be necessary but removing it all at once is also risky at the moment as it might increase the PO4 level furthermore.

Also lets see what the water tests result will be.

G.Alexander
24 hours later and the phosphate reading has halved. I added some Zeozym yesterday and today I did a water change and siphoned the sump after testing. After the water change I added 6 drops of Biomate and 3 drops of Spongepower. Sponges were growing quite extensively while the corals were doing well but they have shrunk during the phosphate spike.

I'm going to try and keep Zeozym added regularly - twice per week. I haven't got around to the sand yet and I know it's something that needs doing, so hopefully the Biomate and Zeozym will help with this until I manage to do it. I hadn't been quite so regular with Zeozym and I have a feeling it was helping with the sand. I have also dropped feeding to twice per day instead of 3 times per day.

Fingers crossed. Once it stabilises I'll need to spend a bit on corals again - I lost some nice ones. :-( Hopefully the ones that have not died will pull through if phosphate levels keep dropping. Alkalinity is still being consumed so I guess that's a positive sign (desperately looking for them)!
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2016, 04:42 PM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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I'm not sure how this is related, but my reported pH levels had lowered when the tank was doing better and nutrient levels were lower. At the same time as the nitrate and, even more, phosphate increased the pH levels went back up and the corals suffered.

I'm not saying the pH levels were the cause but they seem to relate to nutrient levels and there must be a connection. pH levels going down coincided with nutrient levels lowering and corals doing well. When nutrient levels increased the corals did worse and the pH level went back up.

Again, I'm not saying pH levels are an issue but they do seem to be linked.
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2016, 05:47 AM
Matwes Matwes 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griff500 View Post
Two consecutive phosphate readings - 0.15 and 0.09.

Thoughts?
How do you perform the Hanna measuring?

Bare with me if you know this already.. It is VERY important that you use the same cuvette to zero the sample as for measuring the PO4. It is also very important that you place the cuvette exactly the same way on ALL readings, use the markings on the cuvette as guides. If you turn the cuvette just a little bit between tests you could get different readings every time.
It is also very important not to shake the cuvette when mixing the reagent, this creates micro bubbles in the cuvette that will give you a faulty reading. And last, the cuvette needs to be spotlessly clean, both inside and outside prior to every reading.
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2016, 05:58 AM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matwes View Post
How do you perform the Hanna measuring?

Bare with me if you know this already.. It is VERY important that you use the same cuvette to zero the sample as for measuring the PO4. It is also very important that you place the cuvette exactly the same way on ALL readings, use the markings on the cuvette as guides. If you turn the cuvette just a little bit between tests you could get different readings every time.
It is also very important not to shake the cuvette when mixing the reagent, this creates micro bubbles in the cuvette that will give you a faulty reading. And last, the cuvette needs to be spotlessly clean, both inside and outside prior to every reading.
I appreciate you trying to help but, as I think I said previously, I had been getting very consistent readings previously. I think it was a bad batch of reagents, which is far from unusual for Hanna. My testing process was, and is, as you describe - done very consistently for the last few years.

My testing was done twice a couple of days ago and I got exactly the same reading. Unfortunately it was 145ppm... Yesterday was 77 (about 0.22). Today I'm hoping to see it coming back down again.

A summary of the initial situation that caused me to start this thread was that nitrate was zero, seemingly regardless of how much I fed, but phosphate wouldn't usually come down below 0.04 or so (from memory) and was usually a bit higher. I was hoping to get it down to zero (remember that the test kits have margins of error, so true zero is unlikely) and it went up higher after increasing Biomate dosing, although I'm not blaming that as it coincided with algae finally dying off from the rocks, which were probably then able to release stored phosphate. Algae then went to the sand a little bit and died off, probably again with the same result of releasing phosphate. Lastly, the Zeolite had gone too long without being changed.

I'm guessing that the system stored up so much phosphate that it's just a matter of consistency and patience. It was just terribly frustrating to see some real progress and growth in corals at last and then get another spike and lose almost all of them.
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  #43  
Old 12-06-2016, 03:15 PM
griff500 griff500 目前離線
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Phosphate has halved again after two days (I didn't get to test yesterday). It is now 0.12 - obviously high but heading in the right direction (down from 0.44 four days ago). Hopefully it will keep dropping at the same rate.

Nitrate has risen to 5 or a bit more. I suspect it could simply be the tank getting some balance and it will drop again once phosphate gets to a sensible level? I'm not particularly concerned about this and at least it is higher than the phosphate level.

Nitrate had previously got to the point where it wouldn't shift from zero regardless of how much I fed and dosing, filtration and bioload have not changed, therefore I don't see any reason why it shouldn't get back to a suitable level in due course and cope with the bioload. I'm guessing the system's just finding it's balance.

I'm also dosing Zeozym with my twice-weekly Zeobak doses. I wouldn't be surprised if the sudden algae die-off released a load of stored up nutrients.

I do wonder how things would have gone if I hadn't tried to get the phosphate lower and just carried on as it was. I was concerned about zero nitrate with phosphate at what I thought was an unsuitable level, on the basis that phosphate should be lower than nitrate levels. Anyway, things are where they are and hopefully this painful stage will end up with the tank in a better place.

Hopefully things will continue to head in the right direction. I have a few corals clinging on grimly and hopefully they will pull through.
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  #44  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:03 PM
powers2001 powers2001 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
My recommendation would be cleaning the sump by syphoning the mulm out, vacuum the sand regular in addition to replace all the hoses which are not silicone with silicone hoses or pvc pipes as those kind of hoses often leach softeners which has a negative impact to the biology. I can not say anything to the filter block you use but usually it should not be necessary but removing it all at once is also risky at the moment as it might increase the PO4 level furthermore.

Also lets see what the water tests result will be.

G.Alexander
Does anyone know if the green Eheim hoses sold for aquariums has softeners in them?
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2016, 02:20 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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I just can tell you they do loose color and softness over the time so anything is leached.

G.Alexander
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