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-   -   Negative Effects so far (http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36586)

1stNoel 09-10-2017 02:40 AM

Negative Effects so far
 
Hello.

I'm new to Zeovit and have just completed my 2nd week with the basics (Zeolites, Zeobak, Zeofood, and Zeostart). Some corals are displaying some vibrant pastel colors, but the majority have completely paled (showing a slight hue) and my zoas are closing up.

Please review my tank parameters and dosing regimen, and offer any suggestions. Thanks!

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.) - 320 US Gallons
2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) - 200 to 250 US gallons (I does like it's 200, to be safe)
3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique. No, I manually dose 2-part.
4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.). No
5. Are you using Ozone. No
6. Are you using UV. No.
7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume). Vertex Omega 150 (skims dark; takes about one week to fill the cup)
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels. Used Red Sea NoPOX up to 7/31, NO3 = 8 & PO4 = .06. Then added new fish, rock and a refugium, and it jumped to NO3 = 24 & PO4 = .10. Unhappy with the refugium (growing too much cyano and not enough chaeto) and decided to switch to Zeovit. At the start of Zeovit, NO3 = 64, PO4 = .16.
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels: Mg 1400, Ca 420, KH 7.3
10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.): None
11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.) 3 Kessil AP700s, Deep Blue color setting, 45% Max Intensity, 185W, 1.5 yrs old, 12-hour light period
12. What corals do you keep SPS, Euphyllia, Zoas, and Chalices
13. Tissue color (light or dark). Light
14. How long has the tank been running. 1.5 years
15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system. Not happy with coral colors and polyp extension.
16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.). Red Sea Reef Energy A & B (25 mL daily), Red Sea Colors (varies, based on Ca consumption)
17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.). About 100 lbs of Marco Rock is 1.5 years old. Added 150 lbs of man-made purple rock last month (caused a nitrate spike...it was curing in a tank when I bought it, but it sat out for 2 weeks before I added it to my tank).
18. Any present problems SPS darkened after the nitrate spike, but is now bleaching and/or dying after starting zeovit (including some that had no negative effect from the initial nitrate spike). Zoas, which were full and open, have now closed and shrunk since adding zeovit.
19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.) I understand that the parameter swings would affect the SPS, but my zoas' current state really have me concerned.
20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.). Red Sea Test Kits for Ca, Mg, KH, NO3 & PO4. Also use Hanna Checker for PO4. Salifert for Potassium.
21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.). ZEOvit = 60% of what my tank volume requires (as recommended for first time usage), ZEOstart = 0.8 mL twice a day, ZEObak & ZEOfood = 8 drops once/day. ZEOvit media is pumped twice/day and run at 50 gallons/hour. Reactor was run at equal hours on/off for the first 2 weeks.
22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.). 1.026 salinity, and 78 degrees F.
23. Which salt brand do you use. Fritz

G.Alexander 09-11-2017 04:16 AM

Hi 1stNoel :)

http://www.zeovit.com/Banners/zeoWel...apeEnglish.jpg

Can you please post the actual PO4 and NO3 level also the K+ level ?

I can not see anything problematic, have you done any other changes while you started with the system ?

Which kind of carbon are you using and how much of it – do you flow it passive or active in a reactor ?

Would also be interesting to know how much Zeovit material you have in your reactor exactly and if you have measured the reactor flow also to make sure it is really 50 US gallons per hour.

G.Alexander

1stNoel 09-11-2017 06:52 PM

Hello, and thanks for the reply.

Here are the answers:
Carbon: I was running Red Sea Reef Spec carbon in a reactor, but switched to a mesh bag when I started ZEOvit. I use half the recommended amount (about 200 grams).
ZEOvit material: I used a full 1L bag, which is about 66% (ZEOvit recommended 60% the for the first interval). As far as measuring the gallons/hour, I timed how long it took the line out of the reactor to fill a one gallon jug (a little over one minute).
Actual levels: NO3 is over 64 (my kit only reads up to 64). PO4 is at .16. K is at 430 (I had never measured this before, but bought a kit based on hearing that ZEOvit depletes it).

Issue:
I did notice I had another Alk spike, so that is likely the culprit (typically between 7.3 & 7.6, but jumped to 9.0 over the last week dosing the same amount I normally do).

Questions:
1. Will my NO3 and PO4 start to go down over time, or should I be concerned that it hasn't changed in 2 weeks? When I first used NoPOX, it took about 3 weeks for it to start changing test results.
2. How will I know when it's time to switch the ZEOvit? Is it based on test results, or is there another way to tell?
3. What do I do with the old zeovit rocks? I saw someone mention throwing them in the sump, but I didn't know if that was an accepted method.

G.Alexander 09-12-2017 02:51 AM

Do you have a chance to cross check salinity with a different, accurate instrument ? Basic water parameters are relative high which is common for higher salinity.

It will take some time until you notice a decrease of nutrients, this will take longer if you use a smaller quantity of zeovit.

I was under the impression that you use the basic system already, what exactly do you mean with the question when the best time for the switch will be ?

You can place the some of the old material in the sump, it is just some kind of biological filtration material than but usually this is not necessary.

G.Alexander

1stNoel 09-12-2017 04:59 PM

I use both a hydrometer and refractometer. My tank has been stable at that salinity since its inception, so I don't think that is the issue.

I think the issue for the Alk is the new rock I put in. I was told it leeches Alk, so I kept track of it for the first 3 weeks (every few days). Of course, when I switched back to checking weekly is apparently when it started leeching.

I understand my question was a bit confusing. I am using the basic zeovit (currently in Week # 3). My question was regarding the zeovit rocks. It is recommended to switch them out every 6 to 8 weeks. What is the indicator for that switch? I obviously want to lean towards the 8 weeks if possible, but not to the detriment of my system.

G.Alexander 09-13-2017 03:06 AM

The addition of the new rocks might also have something to do with the issues of your zoos, if they leach KH you can never be sure what other elements are leached, difficult to say.

The replacing interval of the rocks is usually 6 – 8 weeks which works well from my experience. If you use them to long you might observe a slow darkening of the corals tissue and also colors are getting weaker slowly. This is a slow process so it is difficult to see but if you replace the material and you see a big improvement within a couple of days after the exchange the changing interval was usually to long but basically it does not cause real issues.

G.Alexander

1stNoel 09-13-2017 12:29 PM

I'm budgeting for a mass purchase of ZEOvit products, but want to be sure I get what I need. Assuming I'm not using any other products for coral nutrition, which products do I need:

The Basics:
The basics (ZEOlite rocks, ZEObak, ZEOstart). I've heard people say that ZEOfood can be replaced by Pohl's Xtra & Coral Vitalizer. What is your opinion on this?

Additional Nutrition:
AAHC, AALPS, CV & Xtra

Will these cover my initial ZEOvit set-up? If I'm missing something, can you give me a specific reason why it's needed? Some of the bottle descriptions are vague, such as "increases growth" or "increases color". I'm looking for something more definitive, like these are the basics...and then we developed this blue bottle specifically to address something we felt was still missing or could be improved upon. Then we found something else was still missing, so we created this blue bottle.

In short, I'm looking for that middle ground between the basic four and buying everything in a blue bottle. What do I actually need to give ZEOvit a good chance of succeeding for me over the next year so I can continue with it long-term?

1stNoel 09-13-2017 10:54 PM

Additional Blue Bottles
 
I read another post where you only recommend the basic four until a low nutrient system has been established.

Will my corals thrive with just the basic four?

Going back to my previous post, specifically what deficiency from the basic four is covered with Pohl's Xtra, Coral Vitalizer, Coral Booster, and the Aminos (i.e. you won't see this in your corals unless you use this).

I also have a full can of ZEOzym that was given to me when I purchased the ZEOvit reactor. At what point should I use it, and what does it do?

My switch to ZEOvit was because I wasn't happy with my corals' colors or polyp extension, so anything I purchase is with this goal in mind.

For example, I have a Montipora Setosa that has always looked orange in my tank. Within a week of implementing ZEOvit, it has changed to a neon pink. I've also had the same response with a Mint Pavona and Green Birdsnest (changed to neon green). If that is what is to come with all my corals, then I'm very excited to see the results (right now I have a lot of bleached corals from the KH spike, and my zoas have shrunk in size).

G.Alexander 09-14-2017 03:29 AM

ZeoFood and CoralVitalizer are two complete different products so you can not really compare them.

In the first couple of weeks you will just need the basics. Once the system is running nutrient poor stabile and corals tissue start to become lighter it is the right time to add some of the additional products like XTra, B-Balance, Iodine, Iron, AminoAcidSPS to improve coloration and growth. Of course for further improvements you can use some of the other products which are not mention additional.

ZeoZym does help to improve the biology so you can dose 1 spoon twice weekly (prepared like described on the product label) additional if you already have it.

Are your corals are basically growing well showing good polyp expansion ?

G.Alexander

1stNoel 09-14-2017 08:02 PM

To be honest, I've never been happy with the polyp extension or color on my SPS corals. I have two birdsnests that are nice and fuzzy, but that is the exception. And I never liked my initial rockscape, so my tank has been in a constant state of tinker.

I finally have the rocks, lights, and flow to where I like them. Now it's a matter of trying to figure out how to get the corals to flourish.

Assuming the tank gets to a low nutrient, stable environment in the next 2 months, are you going to guide me on what I need to get going forward? I need guidance.

G.Alexander 09-15-2017 03:57 AM

For sure just post your questions here.

G.Alexander

comex2020 09-15-2017 05:56 AM

Hi mate

I was once in the same position as you had an existing system with high nutrients not as high as yours though and changed to zeo. Using the basics start, bak, with snow, carbon and changing stones every 6 weeks, and weekly 10% water changes it took me about 4 months to get the system to a low nutrient. I had multiple cyano blooms and KH swings in this period and it gets stressfull thinking something was seriously wrong but persevere. So in short things go up and down algae blooms come and go but persist and it will work



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comex2020 09-15-2017 06:00 AM

I also recommend sponge power

Just start on getting nutrients down before going to all the other additives


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1stNoel 09-17-2017 11:56 PM

thanks, comex2020.

1stNoel 09-18-2017 12:13 AM

G,

I am at the beginning of Week #4 using ZEOvit. Corals are starting to fade (patches of white). Doesn't quite seem like TN, but it's definitely not growth. :)

I noticed this after I increased the flow from the zeovit reactor from 50 gph tp 90 gph (a few days ago), but switched back to 50 gph after seeing the corals' reaction. I also reduced the intensity of my lights by 10 points (from 40% max intensity to 30%), just in case that's possibly the issue.

Today I performed a 10% water change and measured parameters again. Currently at:
Mg = 1320
Ca = 420
KH = 8.7
K+ = 430
NO3 = 64+ (still)
PO4 = didn't measure, as I assume this is still high too

I currently have 60% of the zeolites required for my tank size (as recommended), and I stir it twice daily using the Avast Marine Vibe. I also dose 1 mL of ZEOstart twice daily, and 8 drops of ZEObak and ZEOfood every other day. I also dose 20 ml of Red Sea Reef Energy A & B daily.

What do you recommend? SPS and LPS are looking ghostly pale, and the zoas are still looking unhappy.


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